Why So Long?

[captainbandolero]

In the words of Harvey Dent "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." With manga these days, it seems to be the trend to make a series run as long as possible. Years ago, I thought Ranma 1/2 and DBZ were huge (DBZ still is). But now we've got Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Hajime no Ippo, Mahou Sensei Negima!, Fairy Tail, and many others. And if there's one thing all these series have proven, its that longer isn't necessarily better. Good old Harvey's words ring true, even here. So, my question to everyone is, what do you think still manages to be a literary hero? And what has gone on so long that its become the villain?

[Shamus Oddish]

well i think that most manga-ka run the route of having to tell the story that they have envisioned from begining to end and sometimes those paths equal a butt load of money. from there it is a matter of how they can squeeze just a little more story out of the small plots they have woven together. sometimes it works itself out, most times it is a showing of how shallow the stories were at the start...or at least showing when the comics should have ended.

i know there are some people who laud over Naruto...it has some genuine moments still. the filler and the squeezings between these moments are almost unbarable though. same thing goes for Bleach. good ideas, good cast, its just that the steam runs out at some point and the money keeps coming. so what do we get? mediocre content just to sell a new book, or some new merchandise. other shows like One Piece have been consistantly good throughout. well...more so then other shonen style anime/manga. it is funny to think that that show has been out longer then either Bleach or Naruto and yet it has stayed fresher then those two even now after the time jump. i just hope that the story stays good as we begin to explore the other half of the world.

[captainbandolero]

I think that's part of it. But some stories, especially these big shonen ones just simply take a long time to tell. One Piece and Hajime no Ippo are such examples. One Piece, the goal has been from the beginning for Luffy to acquire the One Piece and become the pirate king. Ippo is about the long path Ippo has to face to climb from being a wussy student to fighting for the world title. Furthermore, both have a wealth of characters to explore that continue to make things lengthy.

I think the question is, why is it that some fall away and turn to crap, while others can keep going? Honestly, I think its pretty simple. The ones that turn to crap are those that lose sight of what they were in the beginning. Naruto used to be about ninjas doing ninja s**t and following a useless moron on his path to becoming Hokage. But somewhere along the line, it became about exploding mountains, poorly thought out and overly naive themes of 'ending the cycle of hate', piss poor revenge characters (see Kenshin to learn how to do it right), and freaky eyes. The damn sharingan took over the story. Naruto stopped being what it was at the beginning. And now its a bloody mess.

I wouldn't say Bleach has fallen as far, but likewise I feel Bleach lost sight of itself actually pretty damn early. The concept that was initially intriguing just got too convoluted for me to continue.

Hell, even Negima!, one of my favorites has begun to falter because its become rushed and seems to be getting lost between the romcom elements that some fans love, and the deeper plot that actually made it great.

But One Piece has remained awesome, and I think it will continue to do so, because no matter how far things have gone, or how much characters have powered up, its always been One Piece. Its been true to itself from beginning to present.

Ippo's been the same, and still remains readable, though its faltered a little by focusing too much on a more annoying character (Itagaki) and not giving Ippo enough time to shine for the last 80 chapters or so. Ippo's last two fights were pretty damn weak. But one good match'll bring the series back again. Not like Naruto, where I'm convinced only a miracle of storytelling genius could save it at this point.

So, here's another one then. Battle Angel Alita: Last Order. Anyone else read it? I'm really not sure what to make of it at this point. I'm not sure whether its gone off course, or not. There are several times where I'd been convinced "Yeah, this is a bit too much..." but then a couple chapters later, those over the top bits will suddenly fit perfectly. I'm at a loss. I've been trying to figure it out. I wondered if perhaps it wasn't as dark as before? Has it not killed off enough main characters? Then I analyze it and, no... the brutality and dark aspects are definitely still there. The only think I can come up with that maybe makes me question it upon careful inspection is that I think it has quite a bit more comic relief? So it seems lighter? Maybe?

[Shamus Oddish]

has Last Order kind of turned sour? i had doubts initially when i saw what was going on in that manga but after reading a few issues of it it started resonating with the rest of the series. i will have to get caught up one of these days...just like Negima.

as for One Piece i think the biggest compliment i can offer to that one for not falling into the normal trappings of most shonen style anime/manga was its pacing. even though the crew has gained some serious power and abilities they were not the strongest at all and they have had to seriously struggle to get to a point where they could handle some of the crazier antagonists. i just look at how far Nami and Ussop have gone to becoming relevant in terms of combat. still even at this level of ability its hard to say how the Straw Hats could handle any of the major leaders of the world.

[captainbandolero]

Nah, I don't think Alita's gone sour. Basically, they've had moments where you doubt it, just like you initially did, and then a couple issues down, it'll all make sense and completely fit in with the rest of the series. This seems to be happening frequently throughout all I've read. Its like... the series will do something completely off the wall, and then recover over and over again, and do it to the point that, in hindsight, makes that stuff look good and fun to read through again. My question is, is Kishiro doing it deliberately? Or has he gone insane and has no idea what he's doing, yet somehow maintains such a degree of intuitive genius that he keeps it going despite his madness?

Negima!'s having some trouble, if you ask me, but nothing that it still can't fix. Right now its going through a rough spot where I think Ken's torn between what his fans want it to be, and he's trying to satisfy everyone. My hope is that once he's satiated his romcom fans, and the movie's been released, he can get back to his original story, and take his time wrapping it up. And yeah, I think we're not too much further from the end of Negima! now.

As for One Piece, that certainly helps, that it keeps the challenges interesting, but I don't think that's it. Look at Bleach. Bleach is constantly making the characters into wusses over and over again with stronger and stronger adversaries, no matter how far the characters have actually come. One Piece has taken a long time to establish just what the crews place in the world is, and they've had to work up from there. Which kind of mirrors Bleach. Adversaries have remained hidden, and the threats have increased until we've now gotten to a point where we believe what the overall standing is. So why is that One Piece works, and Bleach (in my opinion) doesn't? I come back to my previous case. Bleach forgot what it was about. One Piece hasn't. No matter what adversaries have appeared, no matter how the straw hats place in the world has been impacted, the series has remained true to the core constructed in the very beginning when Luffy was first putting together his crew. One Piece never got lost in the expansion of its narrative or its setting. Its always been One Piece, through and through.

[Kamex Koopa]

I'm gonna be boring and say MirrorMask MirrorMask is a film I love, and it was gonna have a 'prequel' in manga form, and it never happened D: I can imagine the translation would work, MirrorMask itself is a bit like Spirted Away, but live action